Skip to main content

Wrong logic/info on separation and runway incursion

I have been playing JFK rush hour in the Demo for awhile and I think the biggest frustration is that the game unrealistically treats normal operations as runway incursions and I have a feeling that the development team programmed the game based on a completely wrong logic.

What the game does:

If one airplane is using the runway, the controller clears another one to land/takeoff, the game says runway incursion.

And this is wrong!

The real world rule is that

  1. It does NOT matter how many aircrafts are cleared to use the same runway at the same time.

  2. It only matters whether they actually reach the runway while the other is on it. They must be on the runway to be counted as incursion. It’s not an incursion yet even if the plane is still 0.1 nm away from the runway.

  3. FAA explicitly requires controllers that they need NOT wait for planes to vacate before they clear the next one to land.

It’s all written in the LAW. Here is from FAA, which applies to ALL U.S. airports.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/ATC/atc0310.html

3-10-3. SAME RUNWAY SEPARATION

a. …the arriving aircraft does not cross the landing threshold until one of the following conditions exists:

  1. The other aircraft has landed and is clear of the runway…

  2. The other aircraft has departed and crossed the runway end…

3-10-4. INTERSECTING RUNWAY SEPARATION

a. …the arriving aircraft does not cross the landing threshold or flight path of the other aircraft until one of the following conditions exists:

  1. The preceding aircraft has departed and passed the intersection/flight path or is airborne and turning to avert any conflict.

The point is that the rule doesn’t talk about clearance, because it doesn’t matter. The rule only sees if the other plane reached the runway threshold. So issuing clearance to land is NOT enough to be counted as an incursion.

3-10-6. ANTICIPATING SEPARATION

a. Landing clearance to succeeding aircraft in a landing sequence need not be withheld if you observe the positions of the aircraft and determine that prescribed runway separation will exist when the aircraft crosses the landing threshold…

Now, this basically says the same thing: controller needs not to wait the first one to vacate to clear the second one to land. They can and should clear them to land early.

Without being able to do what real controllers do, it’s simply impossible to properly manage the rush hour traffic at JFK. Hope this official information helps. Thanks for the attention.

Status: Working in Progress3 comments

Log in to comment and vote

Comments3

  • AchtungBaum

    •

    Aug 24

    I’m no expert by any means, but listening to incident vids with radio coms, aviators not from the US seem irritated by that rule

    • mdbyyc

      •

      Aug 24

      Well, I like to watch these too. But when there's an incident, like a close call whether it's a pilot deviation or an ATC error. It's always because the actual distance is not maintained, not the timing receiving clearance. It isn’t the rule that makes planes fly closer. It's the rule to give them clearance as soon as you know they are not on trajectories of a conflict.

  • ES茳风™

    Team•

    Aug 17

    Hello controller, thank you for your feedback!

    We do agree that the current runway incursion mechanism does not reflect reality, and a new runway incursion mechanism based on occupancy time prediction is currently under development, though this will take some time. We look forward to receiving your new feedback once the updated judgment rules are implemented!